Bavaria 32 Genoa

We have a Bavaria 32 (2003 model, J&J design not the newer "Cruiser"). The sails that are on it are what came with it when we purchased it - we had assumed having been there since new.

It seems that the genoa that was on it may not have been the original as we assumed - long story short its on its last legs and when they've measured to price replacement have said - old sail seems to be about 164% and we expect about 130%. That would also explain why the wear patches for the spreaders seem to be in the wrong place! I think the obvious answer is to go with the sailmakers advice and replace with the "smaller" size? but has anyone heard of frustration with the normal genoa size on a Bav 32 and been aware of people upsizing them?

Would you pay £250 extra for radial cut in a "relatively orthodox fabric optimised for radial manufacture" rather than cross cut like the existing sails.

She's used for West Coast of Scotland family cruising not racing. We don't have a "spinnaker" (or similar) although the boat is rigged for it with a pole, but budgets are unlikely to stretch to that this year so will we be frustrated on all those 8 knts blue sky days that I've been promised for this summer?

Which sailmaker? If Saturn or Owen they know what they are talking about so likely to be good advice.

i don’t know the particular boat, but a 130-140% would seem the most one would fit these days, and radial does help shape.

Get a foam luff (or equivalent) as massively improves set when reefed.

dunedin said:

Which sailmaker? If Saturn or Owen they know what they are talking about so likely to be good advice.

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I brought them "home" so they are at my local one who are agents for Hyde. I haven't gone for a competitive quote (at least yet). Whilst not by any means a "just do it" price they aren't so expensive that I'm thinking of getting loads of other quotes.

dunedin said:

i don’t know the particular boat, but a 130-140% would seem the most one would fit these days, and radial does help shape.

Get a foam luff (or equivalent) as massively improves set when reefed.

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Yes they've quoted with a foam luff without me even asking, which I assume means they are trying to sell me something sensible rather than the cheapest or the fanciest.

Quite common on that model to go down to 115% and higher cut. You will only notice a difference in very light airs off wind (when you might want to think of having an asymmetric!) and if anything performance is improved to wind plus a lot easier to tack. talk to Owain at Kemps who has made a lot of sails for Bavarias

You may be leaving it a bit late for early season, aye, even in Scotland. Owens, Saturn or my favourite MC Sails are all on the west and will visit the boat. All 3 offer personal service and put their own names on the sails

You don't want anything bigger than 130% on a Bav 32. For where you sail, you may be better off with a 110%, as you will be reefing the 130% in anything over 10kts true, and in anything over 20kts true, it will set like a sack.

Definitely go for the foam luff, but don't waste your money on radial cut. Spend the money on a good quality cloth.

I have a 120% on my Bav which lives in France (where the winds are a lot lighter), and it's plenty big enough.

awol said:

You may be leaving it a bit late for early season, aye, even in Scotland. Owens, Saturn or my favourite MC Sails are all on the west and will visit the boat. All 3 offer personal service and put their own names on the sails

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Fortunately the old sail isn't quite terminal - so I don't need to get something instantly - but would definitely want it before the summer as no headsail would ruin my holiday!

Thanks all - I'm assuming someone has stuck that on there as a bodge then - will go down to at least the original correct size and talk to at least one of the other locals for a quote.

I inherited a 150% geneoa on my Bavaria. It dosen't set well until wind is 10 knots (unless poled out) and has to be reefed from about 15knots. As other have said a smaller geneoa of 115 - 120% is probably much better, lighter and easier to live with, with a view perhaps of supplimenting with a cruising chute in the future.

ylop said:

I brought them "home" so they are at my local one who are agents for Hyde. I haven't gone for a competitive quote (at least yet). Whilst not by any means a "just do it" price they aren't so expensive that I'm thinking of getting loads of other quotes.

Yes they've quoted with a foam luff without me even asking, which I assume means they are trying to sell me something sensible rather than the cheapest or the fanciest.

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I am sure Hyde make great sails. But I would have thought you would want a sailmaker to measure up at the boat to ensure the sails fit?

dunedin said:

I am sure Hyde make great sails. But I would have thought you would want a sailmaker to measure up at the boat to ensure the sails fit?

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Well that may turn out to be the case - certainly their agent was keen to measure up until the distance was explained. My working assumption was the old sails fitted so new sails same size. They’ve also made plenty of Bav32 sails before so they know the sizes… indeed that’s how the anomaly came to light!

dunedin said:

I am sure Hyde make great sails. But I would have thought you would want a sailmaker to measure up at the boat to ensure the sails fit?

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That's what Hyde Agents do.

Bobc said:

That's what Hyde Agents do.

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Do you happen to know if they have agents where the OP’s boat is based? Not all sailmakers do, hence the suggestion of the local lofts

dunedin said:

Do you happen to know if they have agents where the OP’s boat is based? Not all sailmakers do, hence the suggestion of the local lofts

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He states that his local loft is a Hyde Agent.

ylop said:

Well that may turn out to be the case - certainly their agent was keen to measure up until the distance was explained. My working assumption was the old sails fitted so new sails same size. They’ve also made plenty of Bav32 sails before so they know the sizes… indeed that’s how the anomaly came to light!

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While it is useful to measure, particularly for a mainsail, with a boat like yours the dimensions are standard and readily available so should not be a problem buying remotely in terms of fit. It is the size shape and cloth that is key to getting a good sail.. Indeed most sailmakers would not stay in business if they relied only on sales from the locality where they operate from. Where it does pay off is where you want something non standard or have an unusual boat. I am fortunate in that Kemps are very local and I have known them from when they started 30 odd years ago. They recut the foresail on my Bavaria to help it set better when furled down, made a custom cruising chute to suit the way I sailed and a furling main in Vectran that was as good as a battened sail without the drawbacks. Currently part way through re rigging my GH to twin headsail rig, just waiting for better weather to fit the new furler.

Bobc said:

He states that his local loft is a Hyde Agent.

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My interpretation of post #10 is that the Hyde loft is local to the OPs home, but that may be a long distance away from where the boat is.

dunedin said:

My interpretation of post #10 is that the Hyde loft is local to the OPs home, but that may be a long distance away from where the boat is.

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No - I was intentionally trying not to mention the specifics so may have misled you. The boat is currently ashore in Argyll. I live relatively close to Port Edgar so it was easier for me to take the sails to the sail marker there, as I can visit during normal day to drop off, pick up etc. I’ve used them before and found them to be both reasonably priced and very helpful. They are agents for Hyde. I left the sails with them for some over winter TLC and they let me know if was done but that the Genoa was worse than we thought when dropped off and they felt probably got limited life left. I asked them to quote for a replacement - they said of course we will come measure up… and I said that might be a bit harder than you think could you quote based on the dimensions of the old sail which is how the anomaly came to light. They’ve quoted for the exact same as was on it, and “the right size” and I think they still want to actually measure before anyone cuts fabric (depending on time line she might be somewhere marginally more convenient by then).

The thread was because I was surprised that the sail wasn’t the default one and wondered if someone had changed it for a good reason. The answers here have been really helpful in that regard. The foam luff was proposed by the sail maker and seems to be universally perceived as a good thing in this application. They’ve quoted both radial and cross cut options and there’s at least one dissenting voice on that.

dunedin said:

Do you happen to know if they have agents where the OP’s boat is based? Not all sailmakers do, hence the suggestion of the local lofts

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I'm fairly sure that Kev Aitken in Helensburgh is the Hyde agent. He will measure sails for you.

I purchased my boat, pre loved, in the Clyde. It had a recent 130% genoa, the reasoning of previous owner was it needed 'more sail area in light winds'.
It did sail well in light airs - <8k however by 12knots true needed reefing, by 15k true shape was horrendous (even with foam luff)
The following year I put the original 115% jib on, light wind performance slightly down ie F 1 to 2 from F3 far better performance.

I feel from the condition of the original sails and engine hours to boat mileage the first owner only sailed in F3 or less. Although my boat is not a Bavaria I would trust the sail makers recommendation.

For what it’s worth as a former 2001 Bav 34 owner the advice above re sale size was equally given by Peter S of Lymington. The original sales at least in uk delivered boats via Opal marine were cheap elvstrom . During our ownership after about 6 years we replaced the poor quality elvstrom with Sanders sail made in vectron which I seem to recall was a Hood cloth and size was reduced and we never regretted it for south coast and channel trips to Cherbourg to Brittany etc. my impression is Bav sails as fitted meant for Med boats and hence the need to furl . Foam luff and UV strip plus reduced size was advice. Buy a secondhand cruising chute maybe as well ?

One thing I will say, is that Hyde do a very nice cruising laminate cloth. If your budget stretches to this in radial cut, then it is worth the extra money.