Reluctant crook…

Sandy

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I know Customs and Excise are a law unto themselves but, "de minimis non curat lex" . Its not as if we are Belgian
I've worked with several retired Customs and Excise officers. Their comment was, with three hundred years of history we have some very robust powers, and had some very, very funny stories.

Has Border Force taken 100% of their role or has that been split up amongst lots of different organisations?
 

Rappey

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The red dye is just a visual marker. What they look for are the chemical markers in the fuel. That's where they can detect the slightest trace.
My friend decided to scrap his van and asked if i wanted the fuel out of it as it was nearly full. I took all my 25l containers to collect it. They have been used for free diesel in the past so its very likely i have trace chemical markers in my car now yet have only ever put forecourt diesel in it.
I read the eu has finger the UK a lot of money recently over the continued use of red diesel.
The crazy part is that marine diesel with a 60/40 split is often more expensive than forecourt white.
 

MisterBaxter

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A boat owner could easily end up with a few PPM of red in their car if they used the jerry can from their boat to get some white for their car. No law would have been broken, and I'd be interested to know whether HMRC have ever successfully prosecuted anyone with only a very small trace of red in their car.
 

Fr J Hackett

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A boat owner could easily end up with a few PPM of red in their car if they used the jerry can from their boat to get some white for their car. No law would have been broken, and I'd be interested to know whether HMRC have ever successfully prosecuted anyone with only a very small trace of red in their car.
I doubt it but they are quite likely to do a random check and issue a warning, they usually only act on information or visit sites where there is a possibility of detecting someone. Many years ago it was common to see them at Game Fairs and the like so a private punter is highly unlikely to get checked.
 

westernman

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A boat owner could easily end up with a few PPM of red in their car if they used the jerry can from their boat to get some white for their car. No law would have been broken, and I'd be interested to know whether HMRC have ever successfully prosecuted anyone with only a very small trace of red in their car.

I think there is a hefty on the spot fine (500 quid?). For a first time offence you might get away with just that or even let off if you can convince them there was no intent to defraud and if the amont of red trace was really low.

But they can get very serious with the confiscation of the car, criminal charges and prison.
 

MisterBaxter

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I think there is a hefty on the spot fine (500 quid?). For a first time offence you might get away with just that or even let off if you can convince them there was no intent to defraud and if the amont of red trace was really low.

But they can get very serious with the confiscation of the car, criminal charges and prison.
Yes - I'm not suggesting trying it, more interested in the possibility of accidental contamination.
 

Cuan

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I remember reading a book by a long distance lorry driver, in which he stated that they ran with two tanks, one with white diesel, and the other with red, for use outside the tax jurisdiction area.
Presumably the EU, and countries with joint tax treaties. The red must have left detectable traces.
I don’t know how they would have dealt with that.
 

Frogmogman

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Back in the early 80s the Fjord dealer in Lymington (nice guy whose name now escapes me) got stopped on the Ridgeway towing a boat behind his scruffy old landrover. His tank was dipped, followed by an indignant “Hey ! This is petrol !”.

The engine of his Landrover was so rattly that they had assumed it was a diesel 😂
 

Sandy

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I remember reading a book by a long distance lorry driver, in which he stated that they ran with two tanks, one with white diesel, and the other with red, for use outside the tax jurisdiction area.
Presumably the EU, and countries with joint tax treaties. The red must have left detectable traces.
I don’t know how they would have dealt with that.
Back in the day when I worked for ICI, that is giving my age away, our long distance lorry drivers usually departed with 20,000 cigarettes on the waggon; to 'smooth' border crossings past West Germany.
 

Seastoke

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No news from @stranded, perhaps we should run a sweepstake:

  1. Got a taxi to the filling station;
  2. Is in Exeter Jail after being found with a tiger red in his tank;
  3. Risked driving the car up the hill and is parked in a layby;
  4. Found the coffee and huge slices of cake at The Chart Room irresistible and has not left the premises since; or
  5. Rode the tide up to Totnes and filled a couple jerry cans up at Morrisons.
There is no taxis I kings wear.
 

Rappey

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The police have no interest in the fuel, or lack of it, in a vehicle. Customs yes, police no.
It was one of those police camera action type programes where they were checking vehicles at random. Some police had basic colour test kit and would request hmrc attend if red was found.
 

penberth3

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I've worked with several retired Customs and Excise officers. Their comment was, with three hundred years of history we have some very robust powers, and had some very, very funny stories.

Has Border Force taken 100% of their role or has that been split up amongst lots of different organisations?

A good question. It's hard to know who does what and how much has been "outsourced". I don't even know if Border Force is civil service or contractors. What I do know is we're all paying for it!
 

Bob@SYH

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There are exemptions as to when you can use red diesel/gasoil in your car (as we found out during the fuel shortage crisis in 2000).

You may, if the correct criteria are met, apply for a rebated fuel licence (Using rebated fuels in vehicles and machines (Excise Notice 75)) however it appears to be a more protracted process and the circumstances somewhat tighter than it used to be.

The case I reference was in 2000 and the person in question was issued a certificate to present if required stating that duty had been paid. Bearing in mind the likelihood that there would be residual staining of the fuel lines, they kept this certificate in the glove compartment until they got rid of the car in case they ever got checked in the future.
 
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