IRC for cruisers

[PeterV]

I’ve recently started racing my GK29 in an NHC series which also includes IRC results. My boat is very much a cruiser, furling Genoa at about No. 2 size, 3 blade fixed prop and an old spinnaker. I’m not too sure about the ‘personal handicap’ nature of NHC and so I wonder if it’s worth getting an IRC rating. Does it work for average cruisers or is it only worth while for pure racers?

 

[flaming]

Interesting question.

I think the answer is not as simple as that. In my experience of IRC it works very well at rating broadly similar boats (i.e displacement type, or planing type) who are putting in broadly similar amounts of prep.

Think of it this way, in addition to design type, what IRC rates is well known. Rig size, sail size, boat weight, overhangs, keel type, engine type (inboard or outboard) and prop type. It also now rates number of headsails.

What it does not rate, that can make a huge difference to the performance of the boat, is sail material, sail age, hull state (antifouled, faired etc) and anything to do with sail controls, inhaulers etc.

So if your proposed opposition are largely sailing similarish boats with similarish amounts of prep. So also sailing with 1 roller genoa and one kite, also live in the water and are anitfouled etc, then sure IRC will do a pretty good job of rating the performance potential of the boats.
But, there's no safeguard against someone turning up with new sails etc that the handicap will not capture. So really it's more about ensuring that unless the fleet is of the "prepare to highest standard" type that the level of prep is at least vaguely similar.

 

[Birdseye]

I’ve recently started racing my GK29 in an NHC series which also includes IRC results. My boat is very much a cruiser, furling Genoa at about No. 2 size, 3 blade fixed prop and an old spinnaker. I’m not too sure about the ‘personal handicap’ nature of NHC and so I wonder if it’s worth getting an IRC rating. Does it work for average cruisers or is it only worth while for pure racers?

There is a half way house if you want - the YTC handicap.

The troubling thing about handicaps is that if you take a race result and recalculate on 3 different handicaps, you get 3 different sets of results and 3 different winners. I still think that the fairest for a boat like yours or mine is NHC because it rewards improvement but at the same time, after a few races it takes into account issues like your tired sails, 3 blade prop etc.

IRC can be bought. Got an example on my pontoon. The guy is a damned good sailor but his boat has had tens of thousands spent on "maximising " it within the IRC spec / rules . The result is that he wins all the time. With IRC you wont have a chance.

 

[B27]

However much you munge the times in a spreadsheet, it doesn't change the reality of the experience on the water.
If you come off the water and feel the need to look at the results before you know whether you've sailed well and/or enjoyed yourself, you're probably doing it wrong.

Getting and IRC cert is a good idea if it puts you in a better race, in an IRC class start with better boats and better sailors. I'd certainly prefer to do the RTIR in IRC than in the ISC fleet.
We won't win, but we'll have fun against some competitors we respect.

I don't think the credit IRC gives for fixed props is very generous.
Personally, I'd be looking for a folding prop for any boat I wanted to race.
They came sometimes be found on ebay for less than the cost of an IRC cert....

I think people have lost faith in handicaps, that might explain why so many 60 year old blokes are racing Lasers, even if they own a yacht!

 

[flaming]

IRC can be bought. Got an example on my pontoon. The guy is a damned good sailor but his boat has had tens of thousands spent on "maximising " it within the IRC spec / rules . The result is that he wins all the time. With IRC you wont have a chance.

This is exactly what I mean about making sure the fleet are preparing to similar levels.

And tell that guy to come to the nationals in Poole if he wants to play fair....

 

[PeterV]

Thanks for the replies, much as I think I suspected. There are very few cruisers in the fleet, most are more specific racing boats, so I think I’ll stick with the NHC and see how it goes. The sails are pretty new and a folding prop is planned for next winter! A new spinnaker may be on the list as well!

 

[flaming]

Thanks for the replies, much as I think I suspected. There are very few cruisers in the fleet, most are more specific racing boats, so I think I’ll stick with the NHC and see how it goes. The sails are pretty new and a folding prop is planned for next winter! A new spinnaker may be on the list as well!

Sounds like you're getting the bug!

 

[Kerenza]

"And tell that guy to come to the nationals in Poole if he wants to play fair."
Without being specific and identifying the boat, here's a sample.
ICRA Nationals & Sovereign's Cup, Kinsale: 1 - 1 - 4 - 6 - 3,5 - (7) - 2 - 2
He's a very good sailor, but boat a bandit.

 

[flaming]

"And tell that guy to come to the nationals in Poole if he wants to play fair."
Without being specific and identifying the boat, here's a sample.
ICRA Nationals & Sovereign's Cup, Kinsale: 1 - 1 - 4 - 6 - 3,5 - (7) - 2 - 2
He's a very good sailor, but boat a bandit.

He got beat in more races than he won... Seems like good tough racing rather than a bandit walking away with it to me!

 

[Kerenza]

I didn't say it was him.

 

[flaming]

I didn't say it was him.

Then I'm really missing the point of posting some results?

 

[Channel Sailor]

I see NHC and similar club systems as more for entertainment value and something to chat about in the after racing socials. So a ficticious John and Jane couple near retirement on their Bav 3x something who won an NHS race mid season, well I reckon they deserve applause and a little trophy or glass from the rest of the club just for turning out often, getting to start line and getting around the course safely and at a reasonable reliable pace. Same goes for the new ish sailor who used to solely cruise but is having a go at racing for a few years, then one day their race win is to celebrate that it was worth all that effort.

But then skipper and crew start to get confused over the changing handicaps and the NHS results start to become unrepresentative of how will the crew sailed the boat on the day. The crew begin to know if they did well or not, so it makes more sense for the results more accurately match the performance of the crew (and boat preparation). But if it is a season of races then I reckon NHC and similar can be more representative of the team performance compared to single races.

So where next, well here is where the ratings such as IRC or VPRS come into play. OK, so in both VPRS and IRC there are certain physical characteristics of the yacht where the rating/measurement system does not account for e.g. Hi Tech and new fresh sails, even maybe carbon spars, inhaulers/outhauler. But at least the rating is the same every week, so relative to others in the fleet one can see how the boat and crew did in any particular race in the season.

The next point is about how much cruising gear the fleet yachts usually carry. If you carry cruising gear on your yacht then suggest join a fleet that does the same. If you have deep pockets, relative to your yacht size, then I suggest find a fleet that is similar. Also within a fleet in a locality you might find it has a noticeable informal division between cruiser/racers and racers. It could be quite easy to see, so the skipper and crew simply settles into looking only at the results of that sub group in the fleet.

Alternatively find a fleet and rating/handicap that matches your budget and then adapt your sailing own programme and style to be similar to that fleet. Thereafter enjoy, because it is great fun and a wonderful healthy pursuit. Or just join in anywhere and anyway, then have fun.

BTW, trophies and silverware do clutter up the house and there are only so many engraved whisky tumblers one needs, so I am grateful when it is someone else’s turn to look after the glass, brass and silverware.

 

[Kerenza]

Then I'm really missing the point of posting some results?
Yes.

 

[Kerenza]

I could have posted
RORC Easter Challenge: 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1

Which although true is meaningless. I mean Less meaningful.

 

[flaming]

But why post results saying how good he is if they weren't his results? What am I missing that makes that make sense....?

And nobody won all the races at RORC Easter this year.

 

[Kerenza]

Who said this Easter
?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Who said this Easter
?

If you’ve got something to say, why not just say it?

 

[Kerenza]

I have.
It's wrong to name the boat, or indeed the present owner.
The boat, which is what we're considering, is capable of winning when sailed well, to the point I consider it a bandit. Doesn't mean it cant be beaten, as Irish results demonstrate.
Both sets of results are historical, in deference to par. 2.
Bird's-eye simply made the point that expensive preparation makes the playing field very inclined.
Flaming inferred higher level competition might prove something.
I offered evidence to contrary.

K

 

[flaming]

A boat capable of winning when well sailed, but can be beaten by other well sailed boats is not a bandit.

A boat that wins even when badly sailed, that's the bandit....

 

[Kerenza]

Equally a boat well sailed in a fleet well sailed which almost always wins by large margins on handicap is to my mind sailing above its handicap.
My definition of a bandit.