River Dart, Singlehander for Newbie

[bpbpbp]

Hi,

I have been sailing seasonly for a couple of years, and am looking to buy a cheap little boat of my own to spend weekends sailing and camping (up to £3k).
I intend to take my Day Skipper this year, Coastal the next.

> Where will I sail? Coastal, estuaries, rivers (Dart, Plymouth, Cornwall)
> How often? Weekends, evenings, a few week+ long trips
> With whom? Mostly just myself.

What I think I want based on my experience of different boats:

- Inboard diesel engine.
- Ability to take the ground in order to access more places (up the Dart, Tamar, and coves between) or if I accidentally go aground as I have done already in a Lugger!
- Decent in light winds, fun, minimal, simple.

There are a few Centaurs around that I could stretch my budget to, but I think they are too big and too much of a family caravan for me right now.
I can't afford a Cornish Shrimper, which looks ideal for my needs, but have seen a great condition Foxhound 24 for a fair price, however it is a fin keel (on a mud mooring).
I was convinced I wouldn't want a fin keel until I improved my sailing, had a bigger boat, and made longer journeys, but it ticks all the boxes otherwise.

Any thoughts on the Foxhound, or suggestions of other boats? I don't think I want to go any bigger right now.

Thanks!

 

[ProDave]

At your "up to £3k" budget an inboard diesel is going to be your issue. If you get one that works it is likely to be old and tempremental / unreliable. At that budget I would look for a boat with an OB motor.

Plenty of small cruisers that would do your job within that budget, I would suggest a Leisure 17 might fit the bill. Smaller than the boats you are talking about but good little boats, very basic inside but that would do what you want and cannot be accused of being "a family caravan" but they are good little sea worthy boats.

The likes of Drascombs and Shrimber / Crabbers etc seem more "trendy" and command much higher prices and imho you can get bigger better boats for less money.

 

[Boathook]

Hawk 20 with a cuddy. Haven't a clue on prices though. Sails well and can take the ground. Can be kept on a mooring or trailer. Outboard engine, but cheap to replace.

 

[andsarkit]

How about a lifting keel?
Seal 22

 

[PeterV]

At that size I’d prefer an outboard in a well to an inboard. Have a look at a Hunter Duette, they sail very well, are easy to handle and have a reasonable accommodation .

 

[Moonbeam]

We started with a Trident 24 before moving onto a Westerly Centaur.

You may well get a decent Trident 24 with a less than 10 year old replacement engine (usually a Yanmar GM10) for your budget. Great little boat. We had the bilge keel version, ideal for taking the ground up the creeks and rivers. There are a few fin and lift keel versions out there.

Info here: Trident 24

But... the Centaur was a much better boat in terms of accommodation (standing headroom) and sailing characteristics (quicker and stiffer). We moved onto a Westerly Konsort which was an even better upgrade and kept it for 11 years, but different budget to yours.

Plenty of other choices out there too.

Good time to be looking to buy, the mania has gone out of the market and old boats like the ones you will be looking at are proving more difficult to sell unless tip top.

 

[Moonbeam]

Sabre 27 was always tempting as an alternative to the Centaur Sabre 27 Yachts for Sale - Sabre 27 Owners Association

 

[Goldie]

No inboards AFAIK, but given your other requirements, how about a Hunter Liberty or Hunter Minstrel?

 

[oldmanofthehills]

In terms of comfort at anchor, dried out or sailing, the bigger the better. Centaurs are not racers but they are stiffish and can go to windward. Getting a too small boat and changing to another loses you a season or two and probably half or more of what you spent. Cheap and good value may not be the same

The above mentioned sabre look very interesting and reputed they sail better than the Centaur. If you are cruising coastaly I would really go for an inboard. Outboards are for day sailing to get you in and out of harbour IMHO

 

[Dellquay13]

Hi,

I have been sailing seasonly for a couple of years, and am looking to buy a cheap little boat of my own to spend weekends sailing and camping (up to £3k).
I intend to take my Day Skipper this year, Coastal the next.

> Where will I sail? Coastal, estuaries, rivers (Dart, Plymouth, Cornwall)
> How often? Weekends, evenings, a few week+ long trips
> With whom? Mostly just myself.

What I think I want based on my experience of different boats:

- Inboard diesel engine.
- Ability to take the ground in order to access more places (up the Dart, Tamar, and coves between) or if I accidentally go aground as I have done already in a Lugger!
- Decent in light winds, fun, minimal, simple.

There are a few Centaurs around that I could stretch my budget to, but I think they are too big and too much of a family caravan for me right now.
I can't afford a Cornish Shrimper, which looks ideal for my needs, but have seen a great condition Foxhound 24 for a fair price, however it is a fin keel (on a mud mooring).
I was convinced I wouldn't want a fin keel until I improved my sailing, had a bigger boat, and made longer journeys, but it ticks all the boxes otherwise.

Any thoughts on the Foxhound, or suggestions of other boats? I don't think I want to go any bigger right now.

Thanks!

I have a bilge keel foxhound.
Bought in 2021 It’s my first sailboat coming from 25years of small power boats. I like it, it’s easy to single hand, I can manhandle it around locks and pontoons easily, and with a tiller pilot easy to sail solo. Friends with bigger boats and much more sailing experience tell me it’s well mannered and responsive, respectable to windward for a bilge keel and they always enjoy playing in my little boat.
The mast and boom are the original proctor, with a stackpack and lazy jacks. I replaced both sails and rigging last year and it was well worth the moderate expense for a cruising main with 2 reefs and a genny approx 110%. It doesn’t mind being reefed a little early, it still moves along on tiny scraps of sail.
The sail handling is basic, halyards in the cockpit and slab reefing at the mast but being small I can cope with that.
It’s lightweight, so easy to power in light airs, but the motion is lightweight in moderate seas. I’ve never sailed dinghies, but I guess the foxhound sails like a big one.
I have bought big rubber bungs for the cockpit drains as it soon backfills up when heeling or squatting down at the stern when pushing the 1gm10. I spent the first season in wellies until I got the bungs.
It’s a bit cramped for a couple, and the heads is not very private from the Vee berth, but we still manage to have holidays onboard.
I’m still spending far too much on upgrades for the realistic value of the boat and now looking favourably at Beneteau first 29s or Westerly Merlins for the bigger accommodation with the aft heads well private from the forepeak.

 

[MisterBaxter]

Where are you going to keep the boat? Is there are requirement for it to be launched and recovered on a trailer by a car, or will a yard be lifting it in and out?
I've heard good things about the Foxhound and the Duette is a classic in its own way. Personally I think an outboard is better for that size of boat, for easy maintenance and replacement, but each to their own of course.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Where are you going to keep the boat? Is there are requirement for it to be launched and recovered on a trailer by a car, or will a yard be lifting it in and out?
I've heard good things about the Foxhound and the Duette is a classic in its own way. Personally I think an outboard is better for that size of boat, for easy maintenance and replacement, but each to their own of course.

Outboards except in wells cope v badly with west english channel chop as prop lifts out of water as she pitches. Not fun if trying to push for home as weather blows up. However many small cruisers have outboard mounted in wells, forward of the rudder which helps. So the down side is stealability - and they do get stolen - and thirstyness

 

[doug748]

Hi,

I have been sailing seasonly for a couple of years, and am looking to buy a cheap little boat of my own to spend weekends sailing and camping (up to £3k).
I intend to take my Day Skipper this year, Coastal the next.

> Where will I sail? Coastal, estuaries, rivers (Dart, Plymouth, Cornwall)
> How often? Weekends, evenings, a few week+ long trips
> With whom? Mostly just myself.

What I think I want based on my experience of different boats:

- Inboard diesel engine.
- Ability to take the ground in order to access more places (up the Dart, Tamar, and coves between) or if I accidentally go aground as I have done already in a Lugger!
- Decent in light winds, fun, minimal, simple.

There are a few Centaurs around that I could stretch my budget to, but I think they are too big and too much of a family caravan for me right now.
I can't afford a Cornish Shrimper, which looks ideal for my needs, but have seen a great condition Foxhound 24 for a fair price, however it is a fin keel (on a mud mooring).
I was convinced I wouldn't want a fin keel until I improved my sailing, had a bigger boat, and made longer journeys, but it ticks all the boxes otherwise.

Any thoughts on the Foxhound, or suggestions of other boats? I don't think I want to go any bigger right now.

Thanks!

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I should buy the Foxhound a get cracking, it's April. Some people are forever looking for the perfect boat, they lose sailing time and I am sure some eventually lose heart as well, and take up golf.

Lots of deep water in the West Country and you are unlikely to go aground with a sounder and chart plotter. Way back I was looking for a 24ft bilge keeler and by accident bought something with a deep keel, it was one of my better mistakes.

.

 

[ashtead]

My recollection was sailfish had a lifting keel should that be of benefit? I also recall seawych had an active association so one thought is to buy a make which has an active association with rallies-only you can say how much space you need and how sporty -I remember spending the night in a Formula1 on a mooring in chi harbour and not certain I would recommend but I guess it depends how many on board. All I would say is buy something easy to sell on in your area.

 

[steveeasy]

Hi,

I have been sailing seasonly for a couple of years, and am looking to buy a cheap little boat of my own to spend weekends sailing and camping (up to £3k).
I intend to take my Day Skipper this year, Coastal the next.

> Where will I sail? Coastal, estuaries, rivers (Dart, Plymouth, Cornwall)
> How often? Weekends, evenings, a few week+ long trips
> With whom? Mostly just myself.

What I think I want based on my experience of different boats:

- Inboard diesel engine.
- Ability to take the ground in order to access more places (up the Dart, Tamar, and coves between) or if I accidentally go aground as I have done already in a Lugger!
- Decent in light winds, fun, minimal, simple.

There are a few Centaurs around that I could stretch my budget to, but I think they are too big and too much of a family caravan for me right now.
I can't afford a Cornish Shrimper, which looks ideal for my needs, but have seen a great condition Foxhound 24 for a fair price, however it is a fin keel (on a mud mooring).
I was convinced I wouldn't want a fin keel until I improved my sailing, had a bigger boat, and made longer journeys, but it ticks all the boxes otherwise.

Any thoughts on the Foxhound, or suggestions of other boats? I don't think I want to go any bigger right now.

Thanks!

Think your right about the Centaurs, always was and still is a family boat. Can’t comment about a foxhound but if it feels right and good looks then don’t be worried about making an offer.
Good luck
Steveeasy

 

[B27]

Hi,

I have been sailing seasonly for a couple of years, and am looking to buy a cheap little boat of my own to spend weekends sailing and camping (up to £3k).
I intend to take my Day Skipper this year, Coastal the next.

> Where will I sail? Coastal, estuaries, rivers (Dart, Plymouth, Cornwall)
> How often? Weekends, evenings, a few week+ long trips
> With whom? Mostly just myself.

What I think I want based on my experience of different boats:

- Inboard diesel engine.
- Ability to take the ground in order to access more places (up the Dart, Tamar, and coves between) or if I accidentally go aground as I have done already in a Lugger!
- Decent in light winds, fun, minimal, simple.

There are a few Centaurs around that I could stretch my budget to, but I think they are too big and too much of a family caravan for me right now.
I can't afford a Cornish Shrimper, which looks ideal for my needs, but have seen a great condition Foxhound 24 for a fair price, however it is a fin keel (on a mud mooring).
I was convinced I wouldn't want a fin keel until I improved my sailing, had a bigger boat, and made longer journeys, but it ticks all the boxes otherwise.

Any thoughts on the Foxhound, or suggestions of other boats? I don't think I want to go any bigger right now.

Thanks!

Capital cost of the boat is not the big deal, the real cost is in moorings and winter storage.
If you can sort a cheap mooring, then whatever boat fits on it is good..

There are cheaper moorings on the Dart, for locals in clubs, but it means you're well up river, so a good motor becomes important. Some river moorings are untenable in winter due to current and trees/logs in the flow, so I'd suggest careful research, as a lot of people are paying more for winter yard space than I'm paying for a 12 month mooring. Insurance is also a real cost when you go cheap on the moorings.

Cheap boats vary a lot , I would worry less about the make and model and more about condition and stuff which needs replacing. You can get a yacht for free and see your £3k budget evaporate!

Don't let us put you off, Do It, but do it carefully with decent research.

 

[bpbpbp]

In terms of comfort at anchor, dried out or sailing, the bigger the better. Centaurs are not racers but they are stiffish and can go to windward. Getting a too small boat and changing to another loses you a season or two and probably half or more of what you spent. Cheap and good value may not be the same

The above mentioned sabre look very interesting and reputed they sail better than the Centaur. If you are cruising coastaly I would really go for an inboard. Outboards are for day sailing to get you in and out of harbour IMHO

+1 on the inboard.

I'd like to learn to work on an inboard engine, the way I've done my cars over the years - good practice for future bigger boats maybe.

 

[MisterBaxter]

The Foxhound was designed by Uffa Fox so it will certainly be a good boat. Bilge keels would be helpful though... But maybe as was said above, buy it, sail it, and if it doesn't meet your needs, sell it on again...

 

[Baddox]

I’m not sure there is such a thing as a cheap boat with the specification you are looking for. Any boat that fits the bill and is cheap will likely come with a collection of problems that aren’t cheap to fix.

Have you considered a trailer sailer or dinghy? If you have space you would save on mooring fees which could otherwise soon eat into your budget.

Leave portion of the budget aside for safety gear such as a life jacket, VHF radio. First aid kit, anchor, fire extinguisher, etc, too.

Good luck with your search.

 

[bpbpbp]

Capital cost of the boat is not the big deal, the real cost is in moorings and winter storage.
If you can sort a cheap mooring, then whatever boat fits on it is good..

There are cheaper moorings on the Dart, for locals in clubs, but it means you're well up river, so a good motor becomes important. Some river moorings are untenable in winter due to current and trees/logs in the flow, so I'd suggest careful research, as a lot of people are paying more for winter yard space than I'm paying for a 12 month mooring. Insurance is also a real cost when you go cheap on the moorings.

Cheap boats vary a lot , I would worry less about the make and model and more about condition and stuff which needs replacing. You can get a yacht for free and see your £3k budget evaporate!

Don't let us put you off, Do It, but do it carefully with decent research.

Regarding Dart moorings, the more desirable deep water or pontoon moorings all have waiting lists or are pricey. Available swing moorings are limited to 6.4m.

Best options for me seem to be Stoke Gabriel or Old Mill Creek drying mud trot moorings for around £640pa @24ft.

One boat for sale in Galmpton includes a residential pontoon mooring near the shore for £2kpa. The convenience is attractive, especially if I'm going to be servicing the engine and what not... but perhaps not necessary for me right now.