Very Pistol Flares

[Bi111ion]

I need some new 26.5mm Very pistol flares. My fire arms certificate currently lets me buy 20 and I want 10 red and 10 white. However the suppliers I have found need to have orders of 100 (of one colour) before they will restock (shipping costs are high). Are there a few other people out there who want to replace their flare cartridges so we could put in an order together?

 

[nigelmercier]

I'm pretty sure this would be illegal.

 

[clyst]

How would you or your supplier know that the rest of the purchasers were firearm cert holders ?? Sounds a non starter .

 

[Bi111ion]

Sorry clyst I think you misunderstand. You would need to bring your firearms cert with you to collect the flares from the supplier. Any ammunition has to be issued against a firearms cert. The difficulty in the whole business is that shipping costs are high as the flares count as hazardous materials. So your local gun dealer cannot order 10 red flares from PainsWessex or Seaweather the minimum order number is 100, due to the shipping costs. Typically people want 10 red and 10 white.

If you are interested please let me know and we can find a dealer that is closest to the centre of mass of the people wanting flares.

 

[Daydream believer]

I had a very pistol for 40 years but had to hand it in when i could no longer get flares for it
Mine was a webley
However, i found a firm just south of the Dartford tunnel who sold liferafts, flares etc just off the old A2 who had some 1 inch flares & will sell any quantity
That was 2 years ago
I could not use them as my pistol was a short barrel & the flares were for the Navico pistol which has shells about 75mm long. So i could not ise them
I cannot remember the name of the firm but i actually got the name from Dave Clay of TCS chandlery
If you ring him & tell him Sam Longley asked him about very flares ( to jog his memory)he will give you the name of the firm
The main problem obtaining very shells is getting them shipped into the UK
I did think of ordering from Plastimo & collecting from the chandlery in Cherbourg. They said it could be done
However, i believe Plastimo are sadly no longer trading- they may have been taken over so may be a source if you sail the channel

 

[sarabande]

a co-operative buy is frought with difficulties and illegal moves.

There are limits on a FAC to the amount of rounds you can

1 buy

2 hold

and you will certainly lose your FAC if you start 'dealing' - even with the very best of intentions.

Applying for a Variation to the terms of the FAC to buy in 100s will be most unlikely to be granted.


What's needed is a helpful firearms dealer who is ready to order a stock of flares, and then arrange collection, from a convenient point as you suggest.


I've found that there are some useful developments in the military area, using standard 12bore cartridges loaded as flares, with an astonishing variety of colours and sound effects. The move to 12 gauge means that it is much easier to adapt a standard shotgun to fire flares, though with a shortened barrel and pistol grip, a FAC is still needed.


When lambing is over, I'll put some comments and links together, with details of heights, burn times, candelas, etc.


Don't foret there are the plastic flare guns such as Orion, but Youtube is replete with videos of people altering them to fire .410 and other rounds.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Just For Interest / Entertainment
On my drilling rig we have to have a flare gun to ignite a blow out on high H2S gas which is very toxic and kills in small quantities - so better to burn it than allow the gas to drift. Anyway, with the power of an international oil company's purchasing department off we go. First issue, Saudi requires specific licences for this type of device as one would expect; that took a year. Next the supplier in America sourced and arranged export but then decided he would not accepted a credit card payment from a Middle East country (they were not a registered supplier), another 6 months gone. Eventually a French company said they would supply the gun but then ran into hassles shipping the thing. Found a German supplier who could supply, accept a credit card payment and had a shipper who can handle the cartridges. Six months later the gun arrives and promptly stops at customs. Even though we have the paper work no one ships these things into Saudi except the military. It took a long time to get it through customs. The strong boxes are made and installed in the rig and the guns turn up. Different cartridge size supplied. I then find out that the buyers had bought cartridges from another supplier because it was cheaper. FFS. Many more months later we finish the last well having never solved the flare gun and cartridge supply issues. Good luck!

 

[Bi111ion]

Thanks
Probably you are thinking of Seaweather
625-649 Princes Road
Dartford
Kent

I called them yesterday and they were very helpful. They said they sometime sell small quantities where they are left over from a larger order. Mainly their orders are to the aviation department (as very flares are not SOLAS). So yes they will sell small quantities but like the other suppliers I spoke to they would only restock if there was a big order (or possibly a group of small orders). They did take a note of my contact details in case they did get some in.


Another interesting lead was http://www.primetake.co.uk/ - they seem to specialise in bird scaring for aviation. They have the same stocking problem though.

The only longer flares I know about are the very parachute flares, which look like a good idea (see painswessex catalogue). These need the more modern (eg H&K or their imitators) longer barrelled pistols as far as I understand it, rather than the WWII era pistols. The very pistols are easier to get hold of than the flares.

I think you are right that they are readily available in France (and indeed several other EU countries). I would have to check the legislation though to do this right.

 

[Bi111ion]

Thanks saraband. I look forward to your more detailed comments. Yes although our local firearms officers are very helpful I doubt they would change my FAC to allow me to hold 100 flares. As you say the point is to get enough people who want to buy them to get a licensed dealer to get in the stock, either an ordinary gun shop or a specialist safety equipment supplier like seaweather that has a dealers license.

 

[Heckler]

Just For Interest / Entertainment
On my drilling rig we have to have a flare gun to ignite a blow out on high H2S gas which is very toxic and kills in small quantities - so better to burn it than allow the gas to drift. Anyway, with the power of an international oil company's purchasing department off we go. First issue, Saudi requires specific licences for this type of device as one would expect; that took a year. Next the supplier in America sourced and arranged export but then decided he would not accepted a credit card payment from a Middle East country (they were not a registered supplier), another 6 months gone. Eventually a French company said they would supply the gun but then ran into hassles shipping the thing. Found a German supplier who could supply, accept a credit card payment and had a shipper who can handle the cartridges. Six months later the gun arrives and promptly stops at customs. Even though we have the paper work no one ships these things into Saudi except the military. It took a long time to get it through customs. The strong boxes are made and installed in the rig and the guns turn up. Different cartridge size supplied. I then find out that the buyers had bought cartridges from another supplier because it was cheaper. FFS. Many more months later we finish the last well having never solved the flare gun and cartridge supply issues. Good luck!

Went thru a similar thing in Angola, loads of different size shells, none fitted our gun. Said feck it, got some sched 40 pipe, macined one end to suit, threaded a collar on with the end welded up with a hole an pin in it. Made a tripod to mount it on. When the flare went out, launched the flying saucer escape capsule and circled the flare stack with the home made gun, frantically screwing and unscrewing the collar to load the shell whilst clacking the pin with a hammer. We finally got it to light!
No H&S in those days!
Stu

 

[Daydream believer]

Thanks
Probably you are thinking of Seaweather
625-649 Princes Road
Dartford
Kent

I called them yesterday and they were very helpful. They said they sometime sell small quantities where they are left over from a larger order. Mainly their orders are to the aviation department (as very flares are not SOLAS). So yes they will sell small quantities but like the other suppliers I spoke to they would only restock if there was a big order (or possibly a group of small orders). They did take a note of my contact details in case they did get some in.


Another interesting lead was http://www.primetake.co.uk/ - they seem to specialise in bird scaring for aviation. They have the same stocking problem though.

The only longer flares I know about are the very parachute flares, which look like a good idea (see painswessex catalogue). These need the more modern (eg H&K or their imitators) longer barrelled pistols as far as I understand it, rather than the WWII era pistols. The very pistols are easier to get hold of than the flares.

I think you are right that they are readily available in France (and indeed several other EU countries). I would have to check the legislation though to do this right.

Due to the problem of sourcing flares i finally handed in my pistol & flares at local police station.
It was just after the taxi driver drove round a town shooting people
The police woman said she could take the gun but not the flares as they could not dispose of them
I said ok i took the gun back & said leave it with for a minute & i will go outside & fire them off the get rid of them
She promptly grabbed the gun & flares saying " i think not"
Somehow she did not see the funny side ---but i got her to take the shells

 

[Bi111ion]

That suggests another problem of the "correct" way to dispose of expired very flares. Perhaps firing them at a suitable firing range would be the answer. The coastguard would not be able to take them as they would not have a FAC.

 

[Daydream believer]

I mainly used my pistol to fire white flares in a run down situation.
If one has to use a white hand flare they burn for a while & dazzle everyone.
The operator has to hold them until expelled fully
With a very pistol it is a case of load, point upwards & fire. Then get on with avoiding the collision.
If one does not look directly at the flare one does not get dazzled so much.
I have tried to buy white pen flares but although they must be made they are a job to buy.
I got red ones OK but France used to be the place but now Plastimo have gone there is no one selling them
Has anyone tried getting them?

 

[alahol2]

I've carried a Very pistol and flares for the last 20 years or so. Never had the requirement to fire any off. The pistol is steel and the shells are aluminium cased and have no expiry date on them, they could easily be 30 years old although they look virtually new. Any views on the likelihood of them working?

 

[Daydream believer]

I've carried a Very pistol and flares for the last 20 years or so. Never had the requirement to fire any off. The pistol is steel and the shells are aluminium cased and have no expiry date on them, they could easily be 30 years old although they look virtually new. Any views on the likelihood of them working?

Mine were from Captain O. M watts 45 years ago. Cost 50p each & the gun £25-00
I just became worried i was carrying a bomb.
I was concerned one might misfire & need removing from the barrel
Have to say that i nearly bought a new Plastimo one at £ 400-00 but getting a bit old to sail another 45years

 

[yoda]

I would love some new flares for my pistol but being 1.5 inch they seem even more difficult to get hold of. 12 red and 12 white would do me very well.

Yoda

 

[alan_d]

Just For Interest / Entertainment
On my drilling rig we have to have a flare gun to ignite a blow out on high H2S gas which is very toxic and kills in small quantities ...

I'm sure I remember seeing in my youth a film of a bow-and-(flaming)arrow being used to reignite a flare stack. Couldn't you have used that?

 

[Woodlouse]

Has anyone tried Helston Gunsmiths? Very large supplier of pretty much everything that goes bang to many armed and police forces around the world. There isn't much they can't sell provided you have the right certificate.

 

[Bi111ion]

Thanks, the web site says they have 38mm red, but maybe I'll ask them if they have one inch.

http://www.helstongunsmiths.com/default.asp?ID=855&CB=6/8/2015+10:25:38+AM

 

[Sandy]

Sounds like a lot of hassle. Surrender the weapon and get some normal flares.